A sports blog by and for Midwest Sports Fans
Earlier today ESPN reported that the Browns had cut six players. They were Shaun Rogers, Eric Barton, David Bowens, Robert Royal, and John St. Clair. All of these players are veterans and are likely being cut to open up space for younger players.
The biggest name, obviously, is Shaun Rogers, but cutting him is a good move for the Browns.
If you have not heard, there is reason to believe that the Cleveland Browns might not be so “punchless” after all!
Of course, when the punches are coming from rookie defensive backs and directed at his own teammates, it’s probably not the kind of “punch” Eric Mangini and the embattled Browns are looking for.
Nonetheless, that’s what happened in the Browns’ locker room yesterday, as rookie DB Coye Francies did not take too kindly to a little rookie hazing.
Via the Plain-Dealer account of the fight between Coye Francies and his Browns teammates:
Browns rookie cornerback Coye Francies, the victim of a rookie prank, lost his temper in the locker room Friday, heaving a bucket of ice water at teammates and taking a swing at safety Abe Elam.
…
Francies first threw half the bucket toward Brandon McDonald, splashing him and scattering ice over the floor. Then, he tossed some at safety Mike Adams. “Welcome to the Browns locker room,” receiver Braylon Edwards shouted.
I can’t wait for tomorrow.
The first game of any season is always exciting. There have been no losses yet, no unfulfilled potential, and no bitter taste on the tip of the tongue still stinging from the week before.
It’s a bitter, noxious taste that Browns fans are unfortunately quite familiar with and one that we were forced to choke down on a regular basis last year.
What made 2008 such an exceptionally bad season was the fact that the Browns’ surprising run to 10-6 in 2007 had raised everyone’s hopes and turned them into expectations.
When hopes get trampled, it is easier to accept it and move on. It was just a hope, a wish, right?
There is always a recognized chance that a hope might not come to fruition, thus somewhere in the back of your mind, and in your heart, you are always somewhat prepared for a hope to fall short.
But when expectations are not met, it is crushing.
A deeper layer of vulnerability is exposed when hopes and wishes are transformed into full-fledged expectations. 2008 was a season that started with what now seem like absurdly high expectations for the Browns, but at the time they seemed perfectly reasonable. That is why the taste was all the more bitter when the team fell so egregiously short of fulfilling the expectations.
And now, here we are on the eve of 2009′s commencing kickoff with little to no idea of what to expect from the 2009 Browns. In 2007 we were supposed to be terrible and went 10-6. In 2008 we were supposed to be great and went 4-12. In 2009 we are supposed to be terrible again…
…and based on the experiences of the last two years, all it means is that we could be really good or really bad and no one would really be surprised.
So, on the preemptive bright side, at least there are no soaring expectations that could precipitate a painful fall like last year. But there also seems to be a glaring lack of hope as well, especially for a team in a league that saw 2007 doormats Miami and Atlanta make the playoffs last year.
I, for one, am actually relatively hopeful about the 2009 Browns.
If anything else, the complete lack of knowledge regarding what we will see on the field this year makes the season seem intriguing. There is a new front office leadership team, a new coach, a semi-new quarterback, several new players including some promising rookies, and a fresh 0-0 record all presaging, if nothing else, a new experience in 2009.
Unfortunately, there is also the history of disappointment that has defined the Browns franchise; a history of doom, gloom, and frustration that the franchise and its fans cannot seem to escape.
I have done my best to turn the plethora of 2009 unknowns into positives, writing a few weeks back that SI’s Peter King will regret predicting a 2-14 finish for the Browns. Some Browns fans have jumped on my bandwagon of hope, as evidenced by the comment thread of this Plain-Dealer story in which a commenter by the name of “dawgmatist” linked to my article with the following statement:
For those of you (myself included) who will be relying more so on HOPE, rather then EXPECTATIONS this season, here’s a good article I’ve kept and refer to from time to time to help give my spirits a little boost as we approach our season.
And for the most part, I believe what I’m saying.
Eric Mangini has proven he can turn a team around in one season. Braylon Edwards and Kamerion Wimbley are talented enough to become the stars Cleveland needs to anchor its offense and defense. And the addition of James Davis plus an increased role for Jerome Harrison should make the Browns more proficient at running the football.
So…if I’m so excited, you may ask, why in the hell did it take me this long to get my Browns Week 1 preview and prediction up?
And the forthright answer is that, despite my overall optimism for 2009, I am not at all hopeful about this Sunday’s matchup with Minnesota. I didn’t want to face such disappointing thoughts until it was absolutely necessary.
Right now, the 2009 Browns season is like an early winter morning after a fresh powdering of snow. Everything looks fresh, clean, and pure. There is a chance that school or even work could be canceled. The perfection of the moment has yet to be disturbed.
But at some point, the snow will start to melt, cars will have rendered the streets sloshy and nasty, and the underlying and forgotten about ice might have made the roads unable to be driven on. Eventually you realize that the seemingly lovely blanket of snow is actually nothing but a nuisance that will wreak havoc on your day.
I’ve avoided this preview because I already know that once I’ve finish writing it, the figurative fresh snow of 2009 will have already begun to melt.
Before I delve into the three reasons why the Browns could win on Sunday, and the three reasons why they won’t, here are the particulars to get you ready for Sunday:
Minnesota Vikings (0-0) at Cleveland Browns (0-0)
And now, let’s get into the nitty-gritty of the matchup analysis, getting the negative stuff out of the way first.
Three Reasons Why the Browns DON’T Have a Chance to Beat the Vikings on Sunday
1 – The Vikings running attack seemingly can’t be stopped and the Browns cannot stop the run
This is the A+/#1 reason why I see the Browns really struggling to even keep Sunday’s game close. All you need to do is look at the numbers from 2007 and 2008, as they tell the story:
2008:
2007:
Behind Adrian Peterson and Chester Taylor, Minnesota will be able to control the game and the clock on the ground. I hope that the Browns are better against the run this year, but this is a hell of a team to find out against. If the Vikings run for less than 150 yards, I will be surprised.
And it’s hard to win games when you give up that much on the ground.
2 – The Vikings are terrific at stopping the run, while the Browns struggle to establish a ground attack
The Vikings running for 150 yards wouldn’t be such a big deal if I felt the Browns had a chance to churn out 125-130 yards of their own on the ground. That would help balance out the clock domination and keep the pressure off of Brady Quinn, who is making his first ever opening week start as the top tog on the depth chart.
While I am hopeful that the Browns’ running attack will be better this year, it wouldn’t really take much based on our ground “success” from last season. Once again, the stats explain this expected Sunday mismatch better than I ever could:
2008:
2007:
There was a little bit of hope when it looked like the “Williams Wall” might not be eligible to start the season. However, both of the Williams boys will be out there, meaning a whole lot of 1- and 2-yard clouds of dust on Sunday, and probably a lot of 3-and-outs because of it.
3 – The team with better players and more stars wins most of the time
This is a truth of sports that you could try to argue with, but you would have absolutely no statistical nor empirical foundation upon which to argue.
And on Sunday, the team with the better roster will be on the sideline opposite my boys in brown.
If we stacked these two lists on a scale, it might tip over and fall towards the direction of Minnesota, and not because of the girth of the Williams boys.
The Browns have improved their roster over the last few years, and have more talent than they are given credit for or showed last year, but have a ways to go to be on par with Minnesota.
Okay, now it’s time to transition from the negative to the semi-positive.
I’ll end the suspense right now, in case you were even still wondering: I am predicting Minnesota to win this game, and to cover the 4-point spread. You can scroll down right now if you don’t believe me.
But the phrase “any given Sunday” is the most famous NFL cliche of them all for a reason, and the Browns winning a season-opening game over the Vikings in Cleveland would be far from the biggest upset in NFL history. If it happens, who knows, it might not even be the biggest upset of the day.
It’s just highly, highly unlikely.
But let’s assume the optimistic hypothetical for a moment, just for the sake of argument and for the sake of furthering what few semblances of hope we as Browns fans can cling to heading into kickoff tomorrow. What follows are three reasons (plus an obvious fourth) why the Browns could win.
And if they do end up winning, I can almost guarantee that all three of these things occur (especially the first one!).
Three Reasons Why the Browns DO Have a Chance to Beat the Vikings on Sunday
1 – Home field advantage
Here is some interesting reading for you stat geeks out there (you know, people like me): NFL Home Field Advantage and Team Strength, from Advanced NFL Stats. The post analyzes the varying effect of home field advantage between evenly matched teams and mismatched teams. The scope of the study is the 2002-2006 NFL seasons.
What the study found is that the overall percentage of games won by the home team is 57%. For teams that end up with the same record, and are therefore “evenly matched,” the percentage rises to 63%. Conversely, the home field advantage is reduced to 53% for “mismatched” teams.
Here is what I take from this, if we assume that the Super Bowl-contending Vikings and my beloved but undermanned Browns are, indeed, a mismatch: there is still a 53% chance that the Browns come away victorious.
Hey, I said this section was reasons why the Browns do have a chance. I’d say this quick statistical citation qualifies.
(See, I guaranteed that if the Browns would win, the first reason would almost surely occur. Well, no matter what happens, the game is being played at Cleveland Browns stadium, so I’m right!)
2 – The Browns’ porous 2008 rushing attack could improve to a level closer to 2007′s competence
As stated above, I have little confidence that the Browns will be able to run on Minnesota or stop the Vikings’ rushing attack. To win the game, they will have to at least exceed my expectations in one area. With Adrian Peterson in the Vikings’ backfield, I see very little hope of the Browns containing the Vikings on the ground.
However, I do think there is a chance for the Browns’ backfield to come through with a solid day.
The main reason for this hope, no matter how small it may be, is that the Browns do have versatility, and even a little bit of explosiveness, in their backfield.
Now for a quick snap back to reality: the Vikings finished first in the NFL in rushing defense the last two years. Predicting that the Browns can break the century mark on the ground against Minnesota is foolhardy at best, and most likely requires some level of hopeful insanity.
Well, I am not predicting that it will happen. Yet, if James Davis and Jerome Harrison are used more than sparingly, and come to play, it could happen. And I believe that with the inexperienced Brady Quinn at QB and only one proven WR on the outside in Braylon Edwards, the Browns will need to approach or exceed 100 yards on the ground to win this game.
The Lewis-Davis-Harrison trio has intriguing potential, and they do have a decent offensive line to run behind. Maybe, just maybe, the Browns can defy the stats and the odds to produce adequately on the ground. If so, they will have a chance to control the ball, the clock, field position, and possibly put themselves in a position to win the game late.
3 – The Browns’ main defensive strength capitalizes on the Vikings’ main offensive weakness
I have already chronicled the Browns’ woes stopping the run. We also know that opposing QBs do not fear being taken to the ground, as the Browns accumulated only 17 sacks last year, tying for 30th in the NFL. For a little perspective, DeMarcus Ware of Dallas had 20 all by himself.
However, there is one thing that the Browns do well defensively: force turnovers, specifically interceptions. Only Baltimore (with 23) had more inceptions than the Browns’ 22 in 2008. And it wasn’t one player dominating the totals, as the Browns got INT contributions from everywhere on their defense.
Sean Jones is gone, so his four picks will have to be replaced, with former Jet Abram Elam stepping in as the guy trying to replace them. Elam had only one pick last season, but did return it 92 yards for a TD.
Update: Forgot to check the injury report before posting. Eric Wright is listed as questionable, with Hank Poteat slated to replace Wright if he cannot go. So…please EW…be ready to go.
Also, just so you don’t think I forgot, Bernard Berrian is also listed as questionable for Minnesota. While his absence would hurt Minnesota, I think this game will be decided on the ground, making Berrian’s inability to play somewhat negligible. But it does offer one less way for the Vikings to attack Cleveland should Berrian not be able to go, and obviously would help balance out Wright’s absence if he cannot go either.
Why is this such a positive, especially against the Vikings? Well, you may have heard that Brett Favre is now playing QB for Minnesota. And you also may know that he is the NFL’s all-time leader in virtually QB stat imaginable, including interceptions.
Last year, Favre tossed 22 completions to the other team, and there were only three games in which he did not throw a pick. For his career, Favre has thrown 310 INTs so surely he will gift wrap a few for McDonald, Wright, Pool, et al, right?
It depends on which Brett Favre we see.
He played very conservatively during the preseason, and understands the greatness that lines up behind him. Though it goes against his natural instincts, I am sure that Favre and the Minnesota coaches are committed to him playing a more safe, ball control, game manager brand of football than he is used to playing.
But can an old dog learn new tricks? Can a leopard change its spots? Can a Favre protect the football?
We’ll find out, but the historical evidence leads me to believe that there will be at least one or two balls there for the taking. If so, the Browns’ defenders have proven that they are capable of taking advantage.
Now the caveat: the Browns’ offense will have to take advantage of the turnovers, something that they couldn’t do last year. So we’ll see if that improves this season.
Regardless, I’m just looking for reasons the Browns could win. Forcing turnovers is certainly one reason that we can reasonably expect, and there is no way Cleveland comes away from Sunday victorious without them.
Before we move onto the prediction, I do also want to say that a fourth reason for hope is the presence of Joshua Cribbs. He is capable of changing a game with one kick return, one forced fumble covering a punt, or even in his new purportedly expanded role on offense. By now, Browns fans should understand that Cribbs’ superb ability is a given, so I didn’t list it as one of my three official reasons.
Okay, now for the moment I’ve been fearing and avoiding: a prediction for this Sunday’s Browns-Vikings game.
You already know that my caveat will be that I hope to be proven wrong. While there are a few legitimate reasons to believe that I will be, I take my prediction responsibilities seriously and try to pick with my head instead of my heart.
If I picked with my heart and dove completely into the lonely waters of Browns optimism, I’d go 17-14 Browns. However, my head says the Browns just aren’t good enough yet, even at home, to overcome Adrian Peterson and the Vikings.
So while I believe that 7-9 or 8-8 is realistically attainable for this year’s Browns, I just can’t see one of those 7 or 8 wins coming tomorrow.
Official Browns-Vikings prediction: Minnesota Vikings 27 | Cleveland Browns 13
And now, in the interests of ending this on a positive, please follow the link to my aforementioned ode to Browns hope in 2009. The Vikings are just not a good matchup for Cleveland, but an 0-1 start will not mean that hope is lost for a successful rebound season in 2009.
A few other previews from our friends around the Brownsosphere:
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* – Adrian Peterson photo credit: Bryan C Singer/Icon SMI via Lester’s Legends
* – Eric Wright photo credit: Tracy Boulian — Associated Press via Washington Post
Over the course of the last week, I have had the pleasure of engaging in a Browns preseason Q&A with Barry McBride of the Orange & Brown Report. You can stay current with Barry’s latest updates on the OBR blog. As I listen to the third preseason game (Titans up 7-0 right now, Brady Quinn started) I will post the answers below for your viewing pleasure.
And remember, if you are a Cleveland Browns fan, there is no greater Cleveland Browns resource online than the Orange & Brown Report. So click over there and register for premium access. The best part: you get a 7-day free trial to realize how kick ass it is. We know that with Eric Mangini in charge, information will be hard to come by. No one will have more than these guys.
If you don’t want to do the premium access right now, at the very least follow the OBR on Twitter for the latest Browns news as it happens.
Also, follow these links to StubHub for great deals on 2009 Browns tickets or tickets to all NFL games.
Okay, I’ve shilled enough (but I do mean it, these guys are great). Onto the Q&A:
Q: I heard Gil Brandt on Sirius say that the reason the Browns have not announced their QB yet is because they are trying to trade Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson and do not want to hurt the trade value for either. Is there any truth to this, based on what you know? And how do you see the QB situation shaking out?
Barry McBride: Gil Brandt is obviously a great football mind and still well-connected in NFL circles. This isn’t a new thought, however. It’s something we’ve discussed on the OBR ever since Eric Mangini announced that there would be a quarterback competition back in March during the scouting combines.
At the time, there was a lot of speculation that the Browns would deal either Quinn or Anderson for draft picks, and it made no sense to reduce the trade value of either by declaring one of them to be the team’s backup. It’s certainly possible that one or the other will still be dealt, and that this is why Mangini is waiting, although there isn’t anything visibly percolating at the moment.
Another way to look at it is that neither quarterback has stepped up and grabbed the job by the throat. The Browns hoped that either Quinn or DA would make it a non-issue by their performance this Summer, but both quarterbacks continue to demonstrate their respective strengths and weaknesses as expected. Neither has really stepped their game up to the point where the job was clearly won, although Quinn still seems to have the edge.
One other thing to keep in mind is that Eric Mangini’s penchant for secrecy dates back to his time as a defensive coordinator working for Bill Belichick. He has said that one of the toughest things for him to overcome as a defensive coordinator is not knowing which quarterback he will be facing in the coming weeks. He may simply be holding off declaring a winner to make it harder for the Vikings to plan for the season opener.
Q: One of my thoughts regarding DA and Brady is that while Brady should, theoretically, be less prone to the boneheaded mistakes we’ve become accustomed to with Derek, having Derek as the starter would be better for Braylon. And with the Browns devoid of proven playmakers on offense, putting Braylon in the best position to succeed may be the best move for us offensively. Do you agree?
Barry McBride:Â I like how you’re thinking, but I’m not sure I’m fully on board.
The first thought that springs to mind is that the biggest challenge to Braylon Edwards’ success since 2007 has typically been Braylon himself. While undeniably talented, Edwards seems to suffer from lapses in focus that aren’t dependent on who is quarterbacking. He has memorable dropped touchdown passes that have been delivered to him from both Quinn and Anderson in the past, as recently as the first preseason game against the Packers when Quinn hit him in the back of the end zone.
If anything, Quinn’s softer touch with the football might help Edwards hold onto the ball somewhat, although Anderson’s ability to stretch the field obviously makes Edwards a threat on every play, as does Anderson’s sometimes stubborn desire to focus on getting the ball to him even when dealing with double or triple-coverage.
One other factor that suggests that Quinn might ultimately help Edwards is that it’s critical for the Browns to have credible #2 and #3 receiving threats, and a credible threat of runners catching passes out of the backfield as well. Anderson has a tendency to continually attempt to feed the ball to Edwards (and Winslow in past years), and Quinn’s tendency to go through his progressions quickly might force opponents to take the Browns’ other receivers far more seriously and help reduce the amount of attention that Edwards gets from opponents.
I suspect that we’ll ultimately really only know how Edwards would fare under a full season with Quinn at QB is to give that option a chance, and see how he does.
(As I am posting this, Phil Dawson just kicked a field goal. Browns close the gap to 7-3.)
Q: As a fan who is 1,000 miles away from the action, I can only look at stats and quotes in the paper to make a judgment. With QBs though, leadership, intangibles, huddle command, etc., are so important. Between Derek and Brady, who seems to have more respect from their teammates? Who “commands†the team better? Or have they not separated themselves in this regard either?
Barry McBride:Â I would give the edge here to Quinn as well, based on what I’ve heard through OBR reporters like Lane Adkins and Fred Greetham.
With some strong personalities on the Browns (as with every team), it’s critical that there not be a question about who is in charge in the huddle. As we’ve been told by players themselves, there’s no question when Quinn is on the field that he’s running the show. Although it’s never been said outright by his teammates, by extension, one can infer that Anderson may be somewhat less of a take-charge guy. I have to add, however, that Lane Adkins has relayed this year that Anderson’s approach in that department has taken a step up. He has a little more of a swagger about him than in past years.
Full disclosure: Someone reading the last two answers may conclude that I’ve got my mind made up about who I think would serve the Browns better in the long run. To that, I have to say, “guilty as charged”.
I was an advocate of drafting Quinn, have advocated giving him opportunities faster, and have been skeptical about Anderson ever since we got our first prolonged exposure to him during 2007 training camp. He’s clearly got tremendous athletic ability and potential that makes offensive coordinators salivate, but I admit that I still see the same quarterback from Oregon State highlight films: rocket arm, sprays the ball all over the field, and has a very high dependence on getting good protection and having receivers who will out-muscle defenders for the ball. That all came together to support him in 2007, and he was a Pro Bowler. It didn’t happen in 2008, and I don’t see it happening in 2009, either. On a team that has those attributes around him, Anderson could be very successful, but the Browns just aren’t there.
Q: Okay, well that about wraps things up. Wait…oh…there are 21 other starting positions on the Browns this year? Who knew?
What is the status of the contract talks with Josh Cribbs? When I watched the Detroit preseason game, it reminded me that we do, in fact, have a gamebreaker other than Dropsie Edwards. To me, especially with his improvement as a WR, Cribbs’ contract demands are not in any way outlandish. Are Mangini and Kokinis just playing a cat-and-mouse game with Cribbs and planning to sign him, or do you think they just are not convinced yet that he is worth more than he is making?
Barry McBride:Â Cribbs has agreed to come in, practice, and play despite lack of visible progress being made on his contract. Obviously, he’s a key component of the Browns special teams, but the team itself claims to be mystified as to how to price a return man (and obviously is not wanting to give Cribbs the same money that the Bears laid out for Devin Hester). The Browns are also, like most NFL teams, reluctant to tear up a contract with two years left. Although it should be noted that this reluctance rarely is in evidence when players are under-performing rather than out-performing their deals.
As luck would have it, the preseason has given Cribbs a chance to make a serious push for the #2 WR role which, if he wins it, bails both him and the team out by providing some more guidance about where Cribbs’ price should be, as well as a stronger rationalization for doing so. The Cribbs saga has yet to play out, but has already been marked by some of the worst mainstream media reporting I’ve ever seen, as both local and national media elements carve headlines out of virtually nothing more than having their previous assumptions about Cribbs’ intentions proven wrong.
Q: There have been rumblings recently that James Davis could start sneaking his way into more first team action. How patient will Mangini be with Jamal Lewis if Jamal continues to be slow to the hole and sports a 3.5-3.8 yard per carry average? And how does Jerome Harrison fit into this equation? Mangini seemed committed to getting Harrison the ball based on comments from early training camp, but Davis appears to have passed him over the last week. When will Jerome get back on the field and how do you see the attempts being split up between he and the rook?
Barry McBride:Â I don’t see Davis and Harrison as being much in conflict since they’re different types of backs. Harrison, although he gets more yards after contact than I would have expected, still primarily fits the mold of an NFL third-down back, whereas Davis is more of a between-the-tackles runner, like Jamal Lewis. I see Davis as spelling Lewis, with Harrison appearing more in third down situations. What Davis’ emergence means to Harrison is that he’s less likely to get opportunities to serve as an every down back, although I considered that to be somewhat questionable in any event.
If the interior of the Browns offensive line can’t hold holes open for longer than they have in the preseason, Lewis’ opportunities will go down, since Davis is quicker to the hole. This won’t make Lewis happy, as he still seems to firmly believe he’s most effective with 20-25 carries per game. While statistics bear that out for his career as a whole, it’s a dubious notion at this point.
Q: Real quick before we move to defense, what can Browns fans expect from the offensive line this year? Obviously Joe Thomas is an anchor on the left side, but will this year’s line be closer in performance to the 2007 unit or last year’s sieve?
Barry McBride:Â I wouldn’t expect 2007-level performance, simply because I don’t believe that Pork Chop Womack can perform at the same level that Ryan Tucker did during that year. We found out in 2008 how critical Tucker was to that unit and to helping out the undersized Hank Fraley and new right tackle Kevin Shaffer. It’s no coincidence, in my view, that the team’s best performance last year came in the one game where Tucker appeared. He has been on and off the practice field all preseason, and I don’t anticipate that he’ll be able to help take the right side of the Browns line up to the next level. Womack and John St. Clair have been steady and professional, although St. Clair has shown in the preseason a tendency towards ill-timed penalties.
Alex Mack has a very good shot of displacing Hank Fraley at center, but we’ve already seen him dealing with the rough NFL learning curve. In the AFC North, he’ll have to contend with some of the best nose tackles in the league. Expect mistakes to be made as Mack adjusts to the NFL.
Q: Braylon Edwards is the only “sure thing” in the receiving corps (except when wide open passes come his way, of course). How have the rookies looked? And is Mike Furrey (only a few years removed from a really good season in Detroit) an under-the-radar acquisition to could have 50-, 60-catch impact and play a QB-friendly role like what Joe Jurevicius was in ’07?
Barry McBride:Â Furrey looks like a very good third receiver so far, which the team has missed ever since Dennis Northcutt went on his way. It’s doubtful that he could equate to what Jurevicius did (since Furrey will be out of the slot, and JJ was a #2 WR, in any event). It looks like he might be a smart fantasy football pickup late in the draft based on his performance so far in the preseason. He will probably get 30-40 catches from what I’ve seen so far.
Brian Robiskie has been a little bit disappointing since being hyped as a pro-ready NFL receiver, but such hype rarely proves true. Both he and Massaqoui are dealing with the usual struggles you see receivers suffer in their rookie season. At this point, Massaquoi may be higher on the depth chart based on his performance to date. He has looked very solid both in practice and games and should be in line for some playing time as the season begins.
Q: We know that everything defensively revolves around Shaun Rogers, with D’Qwell Jackson providing steady performance at LB, but it seems to me that for the Browns to to improve defensively, two things need to happen: Kamerion Wimbley needs to get to 11-12 sacks and fulfill the potential he showed as a rookie, and the Eric Wright-Brandon McDonald combo needs to become more consistent. Do you agree? And is there anything inherent in the new system/coaching staff that should help these players improve this seson?
Barry McBride:Â The Browns really needed to improve their game up the middle, and adding Eric Barton alongside D’Qwell Jackson seems to be a terrific move so far. Rod Hood has given Brandon McDonald a little push, but the team’s early scouting of corners for next year’s college draft convinces me that neither may be seen as the long-term answer there. A bigger question at this point is at safety, where the team has little depth behind starter Brodney Pool, whose ability to play is in question following last week’s game. Pool has a concussion history and the team has not revealed why he appeared to woozily walk off the field. If Pool is not available, the Browns defense will suffer.
Wimbley has a chance to perform better this year for a couple of reasons. The first is that the team has improved their consistency and depth in the defensive line, with C.J. Mosely providing a solid addition, and Wimbley needs that in order to have a lane to the quarterback. Secondly, the coaching staff has shown much more enthusiasm for moving Wimbley around from right to left, which is something Romeo Crennel rarely did. By making Wimbley’s position on the field less predictable, he has the possibility for greater success. It will ultimately be up to him to take advantage of his role in this defense.
Q: The NFL is notorious for having teams go from worst-to-first. In the AFC North, Pittsburgh is the defending Super Bowl champ, Cincinnati is starting to become a popular darkhorse candidate for improvement with Carson Palmer back, and though they seem to be terrible every other season and lost Rex Ryan, Baltimore is still Baltimore. Put on your optimists hat (if you can): why is not an outlandish idea for Browns fans to dream of an AFC North title? (Or is there simply no reason to do so?)
Barry McBride:Â It’s always possible, as long as meteors and comets are around that could possibly smash into Pittsburgh or Baltimore while their respective teams are practicing. Or, better yet, when the two face off in the same stadium.
Outside of that, it’s going to be a rough road for a Browns team that still needs to show that it can get consistent performance on offense and stop the run effectively on defense. Three possibly optimistic signs: (1) This team did go 10-6 just a couple of years ago, so there’s more talent than is obvious from last year’s 4-12 record; (2) Barring the loss of Pool. they could always get lucky with injuries, which is always the great unknown going into every season; and, (3) Mangini did manage to turn the Jets around during his first year as head coach.
An 8-8 season is not totally unreasonable, but I still believe that the team has a significant uphill battle ahead of them. They face six tough games within the division, and will have to have a large number of things go right for them in order to make noise in the AFC North.
Thanks for the great questions!!
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[Editor's Note: And we thank Barry McBride for taking the time to answer our questions. Â Now that you've enjoyed the Q&A, hop on over to the OBR and sign up!]
* – Brady Quinn / Derek Anderson photo credit: Getty via FanNation
Yesterday, the big story in Cleveland was the possibility of a Jay Cutler for Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers trade. I do not know this first-hand, but that is what people in Cleveland tell me. As many of you know, the genesis of this rumor was a website called BroncosFreaks.com, which originally “reported” that unnamed sources said such a deal could be in the works.
It turns out, the original source for the rumor was a complete a fabrication; and ironically, it was started by someone that calls himself (at least on one message board) “The Truth.”
If you want some background on the Cutler rumor, here you go:
And then all hell breaks loose from there. And I know this a) several of my Cleveland friends called to ask me about the rumor, and b) because the original post about the Jay Cutler trade rumors drew tons of traffic yesterday from Google searches, meaning people were hearing about this and looking for info. Traffic surges like the one experienced by that post yesterday usually happen when a radio or TV show mention something and then people hop on line to research.
Then later in the day yesterday, the rumor made its way to the Plain-Dealer, Yahoo Sports, apparently Colin Cowherd mentioned it, as did others, etc., etc.
And then late last night, I see traffic coming in from this site right here.
As usual, I follow the link because I am always interested in where our traffic comes from. If you go to that link, you see the person calling himself “The Truth” taking credit for starting the false Jay Cutler-to-the-Browns rumor, and then the ensuing back slapping from his lemmings in the forum.
I guess “The Truth” should be given some kind of backhanded credit for creating a lie that succeeded in getting a certain portion of the blogosphere and media worked up yesterday; but the actual truth is that all I have been able to find are people mentioning the existence of the rumor, and saying that it was highly unlikely.
Umm…that’s the truth.
So while I applaud “The Truth” for succeeding in his attempt to create a frenzy of activity about what was posted on BroncosFreaks.com, I think the primary thing that was accomplished is that no one will ever believe anything following the phrase “our sources” ever again on BroncosFreaks.com. So I hope your credibility was worth it.
The way I see it, we live in a 24-hour news cycle in which rumors come and go, but many times provide excellent prisms through which to view controversial or hot button topics. For instance, the Cutler rumor compelled Browns fans a chance to analyze their thoughts on:
Now that yesterday’s news cycle has passed, the Cutler-to-the-Browns rumor isn’t a story anymore. The only story today is that the rumor wasn’t actually a rumor to begin with. But for anyone who reported it for what it was — A RUMOR — I’m not sure it really warrants feeling bad about in any way, or thinking “The Truth” got the better of you. In both journalism and blogging you are only worth the extent of your credibility. Aanyone who reported the Jay Cutler-to-the-Browns story as a rumor, especially those who added conspicuous caveats that it was baseless other the line at BroncosFreaks.com, was simply reporting fact.
Take ProFootballTalk for instance. Their site is specifically geared towards being a repository for whatever NFL news and rumor is out there, and they have learned heard lessons in the past by reporting rumors as fact (e.g. the infamous Terry Bradshaw story). When they reported the Cutler story, they were very clear that it was a rumor and they were not saying it was true. Yet, somehow, “The Truth” and his band of sycophants have taken yesterday to be yet another example of why PFT is garbage.
Which is great, except for the fact that it completely misses the point.
PFT, and others, reported the truth yesterday: a rumor was, in fact, floating around. BroncosFreaks.com reported the lie: “We understand that the Browns have an attractive option in place…Our source tells us the players involved are: Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers for Jay Cutler and the Broncos 3rd round draft pick.”
I only feel stupid for thinking that what was posted on BroncosFreaks.com potentially had even 1% validity. I’ve learned my lesson. Not that it will affect their traffic or blogging future in any way, but I won’t be reading them anymore or placing one ounce of credence in their reports that come from “sources.”
Anyone who hopped onto this story reporting rumor as fact was obviously wrong — just as wrong as “The Truth” and BroncosFreaks.com. Anyone who hopped onto the rumor and reported it for what it was, and then allowed it to serve as the starting point for compelling dialogue, well, I have a hard time calling those people to the mat. Sure, I’m one of them, but at least I don’t parade myself around as “The Truth” when the exact opposite is clearly the reality.
Well done “The Truth.” I hope you enjoyed the virtual hive fives from all of your forum buddies. You were successful in proving the irony of your name and in making everyone think twice in the future when BroncosFreaks.com posts information from an unnnamed and unlinked source. Other than that, I have to say that I rather enjoyed the speculation and worthwhile debate that proved to be the byproduct of your lie. These were good issues for Browns fans address in what is no doubt a pivotal offseason and upcoming 2009 campaign.
I’ll just know not to come to you, or BroncosFreaks.com, for anything other than lies and disinformation any longer. Thanks for the head’s up.
As you can tell, today has been a day of pure Browns speculation.
After reading last night about the rumored discussions between the the Browns and Broncos regarding a Jay Cutler for Brady Quinn-Shaun Rogers trade, I threw up a post detailing the speculation, with the caveat that the cap ramifications made a trade highly unlikely. Then, after reading PFT’s piece about the Giants stock-piling defensive lineman, I decided to throw the Braylon Edwards for Mathias Kiwanuka trade speculation out there too.
And things kind of took off from there.
Now though, it is time to throw a little water on the fire, at least with respect to the Jay Cutler for Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers rumors. And the water comes courtesy of today’s official MSF superstar Barry McBride, who dug a little deeper into the cap ramifications for the Browns of such a trade. His post is today’s Link of the Day, in an effort to bring the Cutler trade rumors somewhat full circle since last night:
LOTD: It’s More Fun to Watch the Media Collapse in Real-Time! — (Orange and Brown Report)
I put some duct-tape around my brain and figured out the cap impact today. Dealing Quinn and Rogers, assuming no new contracts, would give the Browns more than eight million in additional dead cap space for 2009.
That assumes the Browns make the deal before any roster bonuses are paid to Quinn and Rogers this year. If not, then add those to the dead cap pile.
Then you have to pay Jay Cutler, which would be another million at the very least, if you don’t re-do his contract. BTW, he gets a $4 million roster bonus next year.
So, let’s figure you just burned $10 million – slightly less than half your cap space on a team with many holes – to swap Quinn and Rogers for Cutler. That’s a little less than 10% of your total cap space to make that swap. At least that leaves 90% for the other 50 guys.
Wow. Hey. Brilliant move.
You’ll have to hop on over to the OBR Rumor Central to read the rest of the article, but it is highly worth it. The above excerpt is presented as part of a discussion about the challenges currently being faced by the real media as they come to terms with the Wild Wild West nature of the Internet. As McBride says:
Seriously, why would an ad-supported news site even bother to spend time and money breaking news? They maybe get 10% of the page views for breaking the story. Info-scavengers get the rest. The information eco-system is upside down.
He raises some extraordinarily interesting points, especially coming from the perspective of a guy who is helping to run a website that puts a good portion of its content behind a pay wall. You can access Rumor Central for free, but you have to pay the OBR to access the really good stuff. (And as I’ve said before, I am a paying subscriber and it is highly worth it.) There have been plenty of times where I have something interesting at the OBR and wanted to post about it here, but instead have just linked to their main site and suggested that you too should become a subscriber.
It is quite possible that to survive, newspapers will have to begin structuring their websites the same way. Otherwise, the information poachers (and I am guilty as charged) can continue to drive traffic from commentary based off the “free” information provided by the hard-working journalists at these newspapers. The OBR seems to have a pretty good model, although I have no idea what their revenue or profit model looks like; and there is a good chance that we will see more and more websites who provide first-hand reporting (as they do at the OBR) go to a similar model.
I certainly can’t say I would blame them. It would just make the existence of run-of-the-mill bloggers like yours truly a little more difficult…and a lot more expensive. Don’t get me wrong, I am not writing this to decry bloggers or say that I think we are doing something inherently wrong by citing excerpts (so as long as links are provided). I work very hard at what I do and try to take the original source report and add my own spin, insights, commentary, or perspective. Even if I stopped, citing some grand altruistic intentions, what real difference would it make? We drive 2,500-5,000 visitors a day at Midwest Sports Fans, which is exciting to us, but hardly even a raindrop in the ocean of the sports blogosphere.
However, add those raindrops up from all the many sports blogs that primarily post second-hand commentary off of first-hand reporting, and you have part of the reason for the inclement storm currently rocking the mainstream media ships to the point of being capsized.
It’s a very interesting topic, and there is no doubt that the strategies newspapers employ to stay afloat could alter sports blogging, and blogging in general, in the months and years ahead. Post your thoughts down in the comments, but definitely check out the article at the OBR. It is very interesting food for thought.
Here is the link again:
LOTD: It’s More Fun to Watch the Media Collapse in Real-Time! — (Orange and Brown Report)
And more links from around the sports blogosphere:
Is Roberto Alomar telling us the truth? — (Deep Left Field)
The Week That Was College Basketball: March 3, 2009 — (Sparty and Friends)
Lou Piniella outraged by ESPN analyst’s criticism — (Chicago Tribune)
The Worst Contracts in Baseball — (Spring Training 09)
2009 NFL Mock Draft — (My Sports Rumors)
The Real Big Ben Vegas Picks — (Mondesi’s House)
Happy Birthday Ben Roethlisberger — (One For the Thumb)
The WBC and MLB’s Marketing Experiment (Revisited) — (The Biz of Baseball)
Jay Cutler photo courtesy of AP Photo/Ed Andrieski
Breaking News 10/7/09: The Browns have traded Braylon Edwards to the New York Jets for two players and two picks.
A few days ago I was informed of a rumor heard on the radio that there could be a potential trade brewing between the Browns and Giants that would send WR Braylon Edwards to the G-Men, ostensibly as a replacement for Plaxico Burress, with the Browns getting DE Mathias Kiwanuka in return.
Not knowing what to think, I did what I usually do in these situations: email Barry McBride at the Orange and Brown Report and see if there was anything to it.
He posted the Braylon Edwards-Mathias Kiwanuka trade rumor and had this to say upon initially hearing about it:
The deal makes sense for both teams on several levels. The Giants would be looking for a credible replacement for WR Plaxico Burress, and are keeping Kiwanuka as a defensive end in a three-man rotation after he switched from linebacker last year.
The 6’5â€, 265 Kiwanuka is a classic tweener would like like an interesting option for the Browns manning an outside linebacker spot in the 3-4 defense. Kiwi successfully made the transition from a Boston College defensive end to a linebacker with the Giants, but was moved back as a defensive end following a season-ending injury to Osi Umenyiora.
Also of interest from Cleveland perspective is that Kiwanuka is under contract for two more years. Braylon Edwards can be a free agent after this season.
Kiwi as another OLB bookend with Crabtree perhaps available in the draft? Hmmm… count me in as interested.
The next day, after doing some digging, Barry posted about the Braylon Edwards-Mathias Kiwanuka trade rumor again, this time saying (half seriously and half tongue-in-cheek):
I love this Kiwi-Edwards rumor.
It’s just logical enough to be believable. Infuriatingly, it seems to make sense on some level for both clubs.
Sensing this, the Giants have done nothing but have done their best to torment us with their subsequent moves over the last few days. They went ahead and signed DT Rocky Bernard, and OLB Michael Boley, and DE Chris Canty, all four or five-star defenders according to our rankings.
Cool, cool. They got to have no more room at the inn for Kiwi now, right?
Right?
It all makes sense.
Only problem is that I reached out to a NY Giants beat writer, who told me that he got an email from one of the organization’s higher-ups saying that there’s absolutely nothing to it.
…
Pro Football Talk says that the Bucs were sworn to secrecy about K2 (other than that annoying chatter about a Winslow deal on the OBR prior to the trade), and maybe this front office guy is just lying to us.
In fact, IF they were talking about deal, they would DENY it, which means that by DENYING IT, they PROVE it’s absolutely true. The logic is flawless!
So, not a whole lot of hard parts to grab onto here. With Braylon Edwards heading into the final year of his contract, and a new regime at the helm in Berea, it is no secret that Eric Mangini and George Kokinis would like to sign Braylon to a contract extension — assuming Braylon is on board with the philosophies of the new regime
and, you know, remembers where he misplaced his hands. However, Mangini and Kokins will also no doubt want to know either way whether Braylon Edwards can be counted on moving forward as they attempt to build a new foundation for success in Cleveland.
So if they can’t reach a contract extension…
Anyway, yesterday I obviously became enthralled with the basically unsubstantiated rumor that started making the rounds that the Browns and Broncos were discussing a trade of Jay Cutler and a 3rd round pick for Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers. You know how the sports news cycle moves these days. It was only about 36 hours old, but the delicious conjecture of Braylon Edwards for Mathias Kiwanuka was already old news, and there wasn’t really anything else to go on.
Until this morning…kind of.
Over a ProFootballTalk, Mike Florio discusses the plethora of defensive lineman being assembled in New York and ends his post with an interesting, though non-specific, bit of his own conjecture:
As Thornton points out, the Giants now have nine defensive linemen under contract: tackles Fred Robbins, Barry Cofield, Barry Jay Alford, and Bernard, ends Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora, Mathias Kiwanuka, and Dave Tollefson, and tackle-end Canty.
…
One possibility would be to move Kiwanuka back to linebacker. However, coach Tom Coughlin said at the Scouting Combine that Kiwanuka will be staying put.
Or maybe someone is getting traded. Maybe for a receiver. You know, a good one. A guy who commands double coverage, like the guy who blew a double hole in his leg with a single bullet last November.
I don’t know about you — and perhaps I’m reading too much into it — but I cannot think of too many other wide receivers rumored to be on the trading block that would fit the bill more perfectly as a replacement for Plaxico Burress than Braylon Edwards. And as anyone who has watched the Browns in recent years knows, one of the team’s biggest deficiencies has been its inability to consistently rush the passer. Slapping Mathias Kiwanuka on the other side of the talented and athletic, but highly inconsistent, Kamerion Wimbley would certainly upgrade the Browns’ pass rush.
Update — 3/3 10:55 am: I forgot that Florio addressed the Edwards rumors two days ago. The headline of the post says it all: No Truth to Braylon Trade Rumors — Yet. He went on to say:
We’ve received multiple inquiries over the past couple of days regarding the possibility that the Cleveland Browns are shopping receiver Braylon Edwards.
A source with knowledge of the situation predicts with a high degree of confidence that Edwards isn’t on the market, and won’t be traded this year.
That said, who would have imagined three days ago that tight end Kellen Winslow would be shipped to Tampa?
Read the rest of the first PFT post on the Braylon Edwards trade rumors from 3/1.
So, like the Cutler-to-the-Browns rumors, take this one about Braylon Edwards for Mathias Kiwanuka for what it is: informed speculation and conjecture. But I have to say that a trade of Braylon Edwards for Mathias Kiwanuka, assuming Kiwanuka is back to full health with no lingering issues from last season, is an intriguing option, especially with Michael Crabtree potentially sitting there at the #5 slot in the upcoming draft to fill the void of talented, diva-eque, productive-but-not-overly-fast #1 WR.
(Editor’s Note: I misspoke in the previous sentence and got Kiwanuka mixed up with Braylon’s 5 Hour Energy buddy Osi Umenyiora, who was injured last season. Kiwanuka was injured the year before, when the Giants won the Super Bowl. Last year, Mathias Kiwanuka had 8 sacks and 51 tackles.)
The fun part about these Browns trade rumors is that we know we will get almost nothing concrete or substantial to go on from inside Cleveland. The new regime will be as tight-lipped as they come, and I have no problem with that at all. In fact, in this day and age of the NFL, I think it’s probably the right way to go — as long as they understand the need to get in front of certain rumors if and when they do slip out. (And we saw from the Kellen Winslow trade to the Bucs, when deals do happen involving the Browns, they will likely come out of nowhere.) But with so little “hard” info to go on, something will have to fill the void as we patiently await next season.
And there is nothing more intriguing than seemingly legit trade rumors involving Braylon Edwards, Brady Quinn, and Shaun Rogers — three of the most significant current players on the roster.
Eric Mangini proved right away that he wanted to create a new era of Browns football, a new identity for the organization, and distance himself from the last decade of on-field and off-field struggles. Dealing three of the key players involved in last season’s collapse, after the surprise of 2007 — not that it was all their fault, especially in the case of Rogers, who was actually great — would certainly be one way to start with a clean slate.
UPDATE 3/23: There have been a few updates on the Braylon Edwards trade front since we posted this item. Since it is still driving significant traffic, I figured I would update the post with the latest. The OBR reported yesterday that the Browns and Giants have, in fact, discussed a Braylon Edwards trade. However, Mathias Kiwanuka was apparently never in the mix. The purported discusssion centered on Braylon Edwards to the Giants for a couple of draft picks plus another WR. The Browns wanted Steve Smith while the Giants were only willing to part with Domenik Hixon or Mario Manningham. Nothing has obviously gone further, but this apparently is not going away:
So what do you think?
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With all of the rumors floating around right now, what do you think will actually happen? What do you want to happen? The comments are open…let the speculation fly.
Braylon Edwards photo courtesy of AP Photo/Tony Dejak
Mathias Kiwanuka photo courtesy of Evan Pinkus/WireImage.com
This is going to be a quick one before shutting down WordPress for the evening (it needs a
break…it’s been a busy day!). I just caught word of a rumor on a Broncos blog that there could be a deal in the works between the Broncos and the Browns that would send Jay Cutler to Cleveland for Golden Boy Brady Quinn and Disgruntled Behemoth Shaun Rogers.
Here is the excerpt from the post at BroncosFreaks.com:
Well, ok, let’s say the Broncos really are shopping Jay Cutler. The deal with Cassel is moot at this point, the Broncos must be looking for new suitors. We understand that the Browns have an attractive option in place. Some Broncos fans will probably ‘freak’ when they hear such a ludicrous suggestion, but hey, were you any more shocked by Shanahan getting fired or Portis being traded?
Our source tells us the players involved are: Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers for Jay Cutler and the Broncos 3rd round draft pick.
I thought, absolutely no way when I first heard this, but, it makes sense on some level. The Broncos want to put a 3-4 defense in place in 2009, but have a huge hole in the middle of that scheme. There are no real NTs available in free agency, and the top name in the draft (BJ Raji) will most likely be gone at pick #12. Shaun Rogers has asked for his release or trade, wanting nothing to do with the Browns. Perfect match there, at least for the next couple years. Given that McDaniels and Xanders have gone after veteran defensive talent thus far (Dawkins,Goodman,etc) it makes sense on that level as well.
Now, Brady Quinn? We have heard that Mangini is not thrilled with the prospect of using Quinn. We have also heard that he covets a gun slinging, cannon armed QB to run his offense (a younger Favre), who wouldn’t really?
This is absolutely the only source that I have heard anything about such a rumor from. Naturally, my first instinct was to run over to the Orange and Brown Report to see if they had anything posted about this. They did not. So I contacted our friend Barry McBride, who runs the Rumor Mill over at the OBR, and he had not heard anything about it. He’s checking though. If there is anything to this, the OBR guys are the best bet to sniff it out. (For the record, no word over at PFT either.)
(Update 3/2, 10:20 PM: The word I am getting on this so far from people I trust is that it is most likely BS. It’ll get people talking, but there are too many cap implications for anything like this to happen without some major contract restructuring. It’s not impossible, but the cap realities would make it highly difficult to swing. If I hear anything else, I’ll post later.)
(Update 3/3, 12:00 AM: The OBR addressed the Cutler-to-Browns trade rumors at the Rumor Mill, echoing what we posted earlier, but in more graphic detail: the cap ramifications might just make your head explode.)
(Update 3/3, 12:24 AM: Last update of the night. PFT jumped on this story late this evening. Their site is down for maintenance right now so I can’t link to the post, but an excerpt was posted in the Browns forum at the Plain-Dealer website:
“Earlier on Monday, a league source advised us that the new regime in Cleveland — known lovingly in league circles as “ManKok†— would likely be interested in Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler as an alternative to Derek Anderson and/or Brady Quinn.
And there are indeed as of this posting an old-fashioned, unsubstantiated, poo-on-the-wall “Internet rumor†regarding a deal that would send Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers to the Broncos for Cutler and a third-round pick.”
Florio goes on to say that he has not heard anything specific, nor does he intend to considering the tight-lipped nature of the Browns’ new regime. But he closes by saying he considers it “a possibility.”
Link to PFT post about a potential Browns trade for Jay Cutler.
I will wait until there is something more substantiated about this rumor before analyzing at length. Nothing against the guys at BroncosFreaks; I’m sure they have reliable sources. But until our usual suspects of trusted sources reports something, I remain wary of this kind of blockbuster deal.
However, I will say this: it would not surprise me in the least to see some kind of whopper trade come completely out of the blue in Cleveland. We know that Eric Mangini and George Kokinis like to play things very close to the vest, so something tells me that if something big were to happen, they would be extraordinarily discreet about it.
Although, since the trade is already getting second-hand, unsubstantiated pub here at Midwest Sports Fans, I guess you could say the cat is out of the bag if the rumor of Jay Cutler being traded to the Browns for Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers is in fact true.
Stay tuned. In the meantime, what are your thoughts?
This very well could turn out to be much ado about nothing, but it is an entertaining thought to kick around. How committed are you to Brady Quinn as the future of the Browns? How far gone do you think the relationship is between Shaun Rogers and Eric Mangini? Would you rather have Jay Cutler and a draft pick over the unproven Brady Quinn and the very proven by very disgruntled Shaun Rogers? Even if it’s nothing, the rumor itself raises some very interesting questions about the Browns’ future.
Update — 3/3, 7:31 am: After a night to sleep on it, and to realize there is at least some validity to the rumor if the OBR and PFT posted about it, and the PFT post got mention on SI.com’s “Truth and Rumors” section, here are my thoughts:
After having a night to think about this, and realizing that there certainly appears to be some legitimate smoke (even if the cap realities suggest there could never be a fire), a couple quick thoughts:
1 – I definitely like Jay Cutler over Quinn, not this is a shocking or insightful observation. Cutler has experience and a better arm, even if he is acting a little bit douchey in the aftermath of the trade rumors. Sounds like he just wants to get the hell out of Denver. And you know he would be motivated going to a new team to stick it to the Broncos.
2 – I do not like this deal if the Shaun Rogers of 2009 and beyond is going to be like the Shaun Rogers of 2008. However, if the Browns determine that the relationship is beyond repair, and that Rogers will sulk and loaf, it may be best to get something for him now.
3 – Don’t underestimate the value of a 3rd round pick. The Browns have tossed away drafts picks like skipping stones the last few offseasons, and adding more mid-round picks is a great way to cost-effectively build the depth of a roster that is not overly deep.
Regardless, I like the idea of a bold move like this. Cutler has extraordinary talent, and was not the reason why the Broncos have struggled the last few years. The majority of the fault for the Broncos not making the playoffs has been its defense. I don’t necessarily think our D is much better right now, but having Cutler gives us a clear #1 at the most important position on the field. Yes, we’d have to replace Shaun Rogers — and would not be able to before the 2009 season — but if he is going to be disgruntled anyway, let’s just clean house and get rid of as many of the attitudes as possible.
I can see the points on both sides, and am not averse one bit to keeping Quinn and Rogers. But trading Kellen and then a bold move like this might help to light a fire under the rest of the players in the locker room. NFL players who are uncomfortable and know that the status quo is always in question seem to play with more focus and edge. We need a little more focus and edge in Cleveland, and we need bold moves to reverse a decade of futility.
Like any big move, a deal like this could backfire. But I’d rather strike out swinging for the fences, with the chance to hit a home run, than take a walk and most likely still get stranded on first.
Update — 3/3, 1:12 PM: This is seriously the last update on this particular post. For those still making their way here, we just posted another item, based on some analysis from Barry McBride at the OBR, throws a little water on the fire. The cap ramifications of Jay Cutler for Brady Quinn and Shaun Rogers deal for the Browns would be quite severe, and will likely prevent it from taking place — if it was ever even a legitimate possibility to begin with.
Jay Cutler photo courtesy of AP Photo/Ed Andrieski
Are all of you serious? Did all of you skip the 2008 season in your minds and are now reflecting on 2007? We were 4-12 last year. We were favorites to win the division, and came in dead last!
We fired our coach who was called “a players coach.” Translation: he ran an over-glorified country club. So Romeo is gone, in comes Eric Mangini, a direct disciple of Bill Belichick. Did you expect the players to react any differently? Out goes your best friend, in comes Hitler. Of course the reaction is not going to be favorable.
Players will now have to work in practice like it is a game situation. There will be no free rides. Why in today’s society are we allowing the players to dictate the way in which a team or an organization is operated? The head coach should be the final authority of a football team, not the players. Eric Mangini has not had his first draft yet, has not dabbled with free agency yet, and has not held a single practice yet, but we are scrutinizing his methods of coaching already?
As a fan or a reporter of the Cleveland Browns, this change should be invited by all of you. Eric Mangini knows this team needed a reality check, and is in the process of doing just that. Remember, 4-12! This team is far too talented to produce at such a poor level. If Shaun Rogers, definitely our best player on defense last year, wants out then let him go. The negative impact that he could cause if he is unhappy will hurt this team more than his presence on the football field will help if he is disgruntled — just ask the Detroit Lions.
Use Rogers’ cap space to bring in Mangini-type players: team first, me second. I guarantee you that we will do better than 4-12, with or without him. I do not want to see the underachieving 2008 Cleveland Browns on the field again, nor should you. Look at film of the obviously overachieving 2008 New York Jets team when you want to criticize Eric Mangini and remember the product that was on the field for the Browns last year.
This could be far worse than it is. The Cleveland Browns have finally hired a guy who has been an NFL head coach prior to taking his learning bumps as the Browns head coach. I invite his style and his background, as the rest of Cleveland should do. I am going to give Eric Mangini my support until it is no longer deserved. Look how long we supported Romeo Crennel!
We already ran off the greatest head coach in NFL history in Bill Belichick. Let’s keep his understudy in place with goals to reach the Patriots’ sucess level!
Kurt Fraschetti
fraschetti@midwestsportsfans.com
Also, a few other Browns links for you:
While We’re Waiting: More on Shaun Rogers — (Waiting for Next Year)
Eric Mangini’s first big task: keep Shaun Rogers — (Dawg Pound Daily)
Newzin’ — (Cursed Cleveland)
Here we go, again, as another Cleveland Browns drama unfolds in the recurring soap opera, “As Brownstown Turnsâ€, subtitled, “The Young and Angry.â€
After just six weeks, new Cleveland Browns Head Coach Eric Mangini is acting like a meanie, mini-Bill Belichick – or to be more accurate, like the young and inexperienced Belichick of 15 years ago when as the new sheriff, he arrived in town massaging a massive ego, but lacking the cajones to back it up.
As explained on MSF earlier today, Browns defensive nose tackle Shaun Rogers is so “disenchanted†with Mangini, that he would rather give up a $6 million option-bonus payment from the Browns due him next month, and be released – despite still being owed another $15 million in guaranteed money. This, according to Adam Schecter of NFL.com.
It seems Mangini failed to acknowledge Rogers at the Browns training facility in Berea, and at a sports banquet in Cleveland, honoring Northeast Ohio’s high school and other athletes.
Neither spoke to one another, according to several sources. In fact, the Browns Big Man and Mangini ignored each other while both sat in the small Green Room while waiting to be presented on stage. Both men have huge egos and neither would blink first – or make eye contact.
When asked about it afterward, Mangini told reporters, “Gee, I didn’t even know (Rogers) was there.†Lame, Eric; very lame. Rogers is about 6’7, goes well over 300 lbs. — the proverbial elephant in the living room.
Mangini, as essentially Rogers’ boss, should have been the bigger man and offered his hand. Why didn’t he? Only Mangini, who seems to have acted in similar fashion with the New York Jets, can answer that. But if this major slight toward the Browns best defensive player is an instance of proving Mangini is the man in charge, it will backfire as surely as Belichick’s first stint as an NFL head coach with the Browns.
Cleveland is not New York or Boston. Cleveland sports fans tend to have small town values and want their coaches and players to be hard-working but friendly, professional but polite.
Mangini comes off as arrogant as his mentor turned nemesis Belichick.
From day one in Cleveland, Belichick managed to piss off the Browns players with his motivational words of wisdom: “Don’t f**k this up for me.†He turned off the media by being secretive about the most mundane moves, and when pushed, issued curt one-liners with zero information.
Belichick caused a firestorm among Cleveland fans when he released the most popular Browns football player since Hall of Fame running back Jim Brown: Quarterback Bernie Kosar.
Belichick’s reason? “Diminishing skills,†he said. But the way the Kosar firing was handled showed complete disrespect for a man who is still beloved and admired by Browns fans today.
To this day, Kosar refuses to confirm the rumor that he punched Belichick during a skirmish in the Browns tunnel one Sunday – and Belichick ain’t talking.
Belichick got a taste of his own medicine when former Browns owner Art (the most hated man in Cleveland) Modell moved the team to Baltimore in 1994 and told his head coach not to bother packing for the trip.
Mangini, a disciple from the Belichick tree, was hired by Browns owner Randy Lerner to instill discipline in a Browns team known for being coddled by former Head Coach Romeo Crennel who referred to his players as “kids.â€
Determined to change the Browns training culture from the no hitting allowed, running around barefoot, boy scout camp of last year into one with disciplined, hard-hitting, fighting machines, Mangini played the I’m in charge card from the start, and pissed off the Browns best defensive player.
The Browns organization issued a press release, stating that Rogers never asked the team for his release.
Nor do the Browns plan to let Rogers go since the organization would have to not only lose a thorn in the side of opposing quarterbacks, but have to count more than $9.7 million earmarked for Rogers against the salary cap.
Money talks and apparently trumps egos since, according to the Browns, Mangini is optimistic that he can change Rogers’ mind once the two men speak. Mangini is said to have recently reached out to Rogers.
Stay tuned to “As Brownstown Turns†to discover whether Rogers accepts Mangini’s olive branch and plays hard again this year.
With Randy Lerner in absentia, following his Astin-Villa futbol (soccer) club’s progress in England, and good ol’boys Mangini and his buddy George Kokinis in charge of signing and drafting new players, 2009 appears to be another season of the lunatics – albeit a different kind – running the asylum.
Thanks to the good folks over at Cleveland Frowns for the tip that Browns DT Shaun Rogers is so miffed at the new Eric Mangini-George Kokinis regime (Mankok, as it is now more commonly referred) that he wants to be granted a release from the franchise.
According to Adam Schefter of NFL.com, the burly defensive lineman, who was one of the lone bright spots for the Browns last season, is miffed at what he perceives to be multiple instances of disrespect on the part of Mangini. Per the report, Rogers is due a $6 million option-bonus payment next month but would rather be released by the Browns than collect the balance of the $15 million in guaranteed money on his contract.
The source of Rogers’ discontent is apparently two separate instances in which he and Mangini were in the same room, but Mangini did not talk to him. One occurred in the Browns’ training room and the other occurred at a public charity function attended by both men. Mangini has said, at least regarding the “green room incident” at the charity function, that he did not realize Rogers was even there.
More from Schefter:
Cleveland has no intention of getting rid of Rogers. It wants him back as the productive team member he was last season, when he was selected to the Pro Bowl. Browns coach Eric Mangini, according to those within the Cleveland organization, is still optimistic that he can change Rogers’ mind once the two men speak. Mangini is said to have recently reached out to Rogers. Those who know Rogers say his mind will not be changed.
But Mangini has had success in these types of settings. When he arrived in New York as the Jets’ coach in 2006, wide receiver Laveranues Coles was, at best, a skeptic, but Mangini eventually won him over.
Honestly, this sounds to me like much ado about nothing in the long run. While Schefter does point out that “some believe there are other reasons driving Rogers’ desire to leave the Browns,” there are two primary reasons why this will get patched up and be a non-story come the start of 2009 training camp:
Considering the dearth of big, agile defensive lineman in this year’s draft, and the fact that Albert Haynesworth already appears like a done deal to Washington, it seems to me like the urgency to patch things up falls more on the side of Mangini.
Let’s he hope he does so, and quickly. Shaun Rogers is a physical, athletic, and apparently sensitive guy; but we absolulutely need him happy, motivated, and being his big beastly self in the trenches next year.
Last night, during what proved to be the game-winning drive for the Cleveland Browns in their Monday Night Football matchup against the Buffalo Bills, Kellen Winslow made an outstanding shoestring grab to keep the drive alive and get Phil Dawson within range for a go-ahead field goal. (Of course, with the way SuperDawson is kicking these days, had Brady Quinn been sacked on his own 1 yard line I think Dawson still might have booted it through).
Anyway, after the catch, the Cleveland Browns’ notorious solider Winslow got up wincing in pain with his arm dangling gingerly from an ostensible shoulder injury. The Browns announced today that Kellen Winslow will have an MRI on the shoulder to determine if he suffered any serious damage. There was no further word on how serious the Browns expected the injury to be.
For the season, Kellen has 39 catches for 402 yards and 3 TDs. Like most of the Browns offensive players, his numbers are way off from his spectacular Pro Bowl season in 2007. Additionally, some blogging clowns (like this one) had brought up on numerous occasions that the Browns are 2-0 without Kellen Winslow in the lineup and 2-6 with him in the lineup.
One thing is for sure: if Kellen Winslow does not make that catch last night, the Browns most likely do not win the game. It was a clutch play from a player who has proven to be clutch during his career (his second half brain farts against Denver notwithstanding.)
In other Browns injury news, Best Player Ever Jerome Harrison injured his hamstring according to NFL.com. No word on how serious the injury is, or if it contributed to Harrison getting only 4 touches. Seeing as how the Browns coaches give the ball to Jerome Harrison about as much as Keith Olbermann compliments Republicans, I’m going to say it had nothing to do with it. Either way, Harrison made the most of his touches and averaged over 25 yards per.
Jason Wright hurt his neck, Sean Jones hurt an ankle, Shaun Rogers hurt his shoulder, and Shawn Kemp wonders why none of the Browns players with his name spell it normally.
For continuous live updates of Cleveland Browns news, including injuries, hop on over to the Cleveland Browns news page, bookmark it, and then visit it once every five minutes.
I am still giddy from last night. And yes, it has come to that. A squeaker win against a subpar team in which they choked on a missed field goal has me giddy. I don’t care. My preseason prediction was 9-7 and it’s still possible. Hope lives!
[tags]cleveland browns, kellen winslow, nfl, nfl injuries[/tags]
Sunday at 1:00 on CBS the old Browns and the new Browns take the field together for the second time this year. The first matchup was a certified disaster for the Browns, as the Ravens’ defense stole the momentum in the 3rd quarter and ran away with a 28-10 lead. Remember, Cleveland led this game 10-7 at the half. Then Derek Anderson decided to start throwing interceptions (3 on the day) and the offense dug a hole that it could not get out of.
After that game, the Baltimore Ravens were sitting pretty at 2-0. The Cleveland Browns were wallowing in the depressing depths of 0-3. They looked like two teams going in drastically opposite directions from what all the preseason prognosticators had predicted. It looked like the Ravens would be surprisingly competitive in the AFC North while the Browns would join the Bengals in the AFC North cellar for all of 2008.
But the tide has turned.
Since that Baltimore game, the Cleveland Browns are 3-1. No opponent has scored more than 17 points on the Browns since the Ravens threw up their 28-spot. And what many people may not realize is that Derek Anderson has not thrown an interception since the first drive of the second half against Cincinnati, the game after the first Baltimore contest. Take away Anderson’s horrid interceptions in Browns territory against the Ravens and it is a completely different ballgame.
On the flip side, the Ravens are 2-3 since the first Browns meeting. Their four wins this year have come against the Bengals, Dolphins, Raiders, and a Browns team that was playing as bad as any team in the NFL at the time. The Ravens losses have come against the Steelers, Titans, and Colts.
So here is the big question the Browns must answer, and will answer, this weekend: Which group of teams are they closer to: the Steelers-Titans-Colts group that is competing for AFC supremacy; or the Dolphins-Raiders-Bengals group that comprises the bottom portion of the AFC standings? The result of Sunday’s game will tell us a lot about where the Browns fit into the AFC hierarchy.
In a must-win road game against a trendy preseason Super Bowl pick, with one of their most talented players back home in San Diego, after a week of controversy, the Cleveland Browns stepped up and breathed new life into their 2008 season.
As predicted earlier this week on Midwest Sports Fans, Joshua Cribbs and the Cleveland Browns pulled out a hard-fought win over the Jacksonville Jaguars 23-17. Browns fans are still waiting for Joshua Cribbs to bust out a long kick return for a touchdown, but he came up with several key special teams plays today; the most crucial being a fumble recovery after a Beau Bell strip on a kickoff after the Browns had gone up 20-17. The offense stalled and only could muster another field goal, but the six point difference forced the Jaguars to go for a touchdown on their final drive — which they just missed off the finger tips of Cocaine Jones.
This was not a “pretty” victory for the Browns, as the offense stalled pretty much the entire final 45 minutes. But it was beautiful in the sense that it pulled the team to one game within .500 with a very winnable home game against Baltimore on the horizon next week.
And let’s not ignore the 800-pound elephant in the room: the team moved to 2-0 without previously suspended tight end Kellen Winslow.
But we can deal with the Kellen Winslow stuff a little later. First, some game balls:
