The Debate by the Lake: Browns Fans Disagree on Planned MNF Protest

Before we get into the heart of this post and this week’s podcast, let me just type something that all of our Browns readers can agree on:

Pittsburgh sucks.

Everyone nod in agreement, put down the Stadium Mustard, and now prepare to be separated into two distinct camps (both of which still hate Pittsburgh, no worries there).

In one corner: supporters of Dawg Pound Mike Randall and the walk-in-late protest that he and Mobile Dawg Tony Schaefer are planning for next Monday’s Browns-Ravens game in Cleveland Browns Stadium. If you side here, you most likely think Eric Mangini should have been shown the door with George Kokinis.

In the other corner: supporters of the opinion held by fellow die-hards like Peter Pattakos of ClevelandFrowns.com, who do not understand what will be accomplished by purposefully settling into their seats after kickoff. If you are on this side, you most likely believe that the correct next step for the Browns is something other than a knee-jerk firing of the head coach.

And now we bring you what I am officially dubbing The Debate by the Lake in which Dawg Pound Mike and Cleveland Frown Peter go head to head discussing their beloved Browns.

Two men with the same ultimate goal, but vastly different opinions on what the franchise and its fans should do next in an effort to get there.

Enjoy.

MSF Podcast: The Debate by the Lake

featuring Peter Pattakos of ClevelandFrowns.com and Dawg Pound Mike Randall

(Note: You can subscribe to the MSF Podcast and listen to every episode via iTunes.)

Peter and Mike engaged in a very lively and spirited debate last night and both make their opinions quite clear. I’ve excerpted a few of the exchanges and quotes that stood out to me, but you’ll have to listen to the podcast to decide what stands out to you.

And even if you’re not a Browns fan, this is a podcast that you will enjoy. When was the last time you heard of two fans getting an audience with an NFL owner to voice their displeasure? As Peter says, whether you agree with Dawg Pound Mike or not, you have to respect the fact that he and Mobile Dawg Tony were able to get a face-to-face meeting with Randy Lerner.

After listening to the podcast, what do you think?

In case you don’t have the time nor inclination to listen to the entire podcast, I did cut out to two short (approx. 90 seconds) clips from Peter and Mike that sum up their positions. If you want to hear only the Cliff’s Notes versions of their viewpoints, listen to the following two clips:

Dawg Pound Mike on how he will determine success for the planned late-walk-in protest for the Browns-Ravens Monday night game:

Peter from ClevelandFrowns.com on why he will be in his seat at kickoff:

Where do I stand on this issue?

I respect his passion, his influence, and the access that he has received, but I disagree with what what Dawg Pound Mike is planning for Monday night. I don’t disagree with it so much from the standpoint that it will embarrass the Browns organization — it will do that, and I suppose I’m okay with that part of it — I just don’t really understand what there is to be gained.

As Mike explains in the podcast, he feels like he has to go through with the late-walk-in to sustain the momentum he believes has been created this week. I’m not so sure.

I don’t doubt his claim that Randy Lerner wants to win, and wants to win now, but the will to win has never really been Lerner’s problem. His problem has been the aptitude to make good front office personnel and head coaching decisions. If Lerner does not believe Mangini is the right guy for the job, he will fire him regardless of whether or not a portion of the fans aren’t in their seats at kickoff Monday night.

The problem is that none of us — not even Mike and Tony — have any legitimate reason to believe that Lerner’s next decision will be any better than his previous ones.

In this sense, I find Dawg Pound Mike’s dogged support of Lerner to be somewhat curious. No, Eric Mangini has not given Browns fans much of anything to pin their hopes on either…but has Lerner? At all?

So why align yourself so strongly with the guy who has failed in Cleveland for nine years as opposed to the guy who hasn’t even failed for one complete year yet?

Sadly, the one through line of that pathetic question is what we all can agree on, and what we all are frustrated by: failure. That ugly word has defined the Browns since their rebirth in 1999.

I don’t think the late-walk-in does anything to help reverse the culture of failure that has taken ahold of the Cleveland Browns franchise. In fact, I think it further perpetuates it.

That said, I applaud Dawg Pound Mike for his commitment, his initiative, and his passion. I just respectfully disagree in this case with his direction.

And now, as promised, here are some excerpts I transcribed while listening to the podcast after we recorded it:

Dawg Pound Mike defending the integrity of the protest:

“This is no disrespect, this is not done to embarrass, this is showing that we care, and we’re supporting this team. We’re here. I’m telling people to buy tickets.”

Peter’s counter-argument:

“Aren’t you still undermining Eric Mangini? Aren’t you still undermining the players? It’s an embarrassment frankly. It’s an embarrassment for the organization. Its an embarrassment for the franchise.”

Dawg Pound Mike responding to claims that the late-walk-in will be an embarrassment to the franchise:

“That’s why I came on here. Because I want to shut all these people up that think it’s a damn embarrassment. Because Randy Lerner, the owner of the Cleveland Browns, doesn’t think it’s an embarrassment.”

One of the questions posed by Peter that serves to sum up his argument regarding Dawg Pound Mike’s responsibility to use his access and voice to represent the Browns’ fan base more completely:

“What about the people that just want Eric Mangini to be given a chance to do his job?”

Mike and Peter argue about Brian Daboll and the Browns’ offense…easily my favorite exchange of the podcast:

Mike: “My biggest thing about Mangini: you hand-picked Brian Daboll. Okay? He’s terrible. He shouldn’t be offensive coordinator for a high school football team. He sucks that bad.”

Peter: “What plays has Daboll called that the Browns, with no wide receivers, with two yay-hoos at quarterback, with a geriatric running back, what were they supposed to do? Where was Brian Daboll supposed to come up with these great calls that a team with no skill position players was supposed to be able to succeed with?”

Mike: “Listen, there is talent on the team. They are put in bad decisions, bad formations…Daboll is an idiot. And I will say that to his face, and I did to him against Buffalo when he looked right by me and I go “You suck” and Eric Wright looked over and laughed.

Mike and Peter boil down the Randy Lerner debate into one exchange:

Mike: “He says ‘I’m the owner, it was my fault.’ Now, we told him and he knows he needs to find a good football operations guy in here instead of these bean counters that don’t know football, and he’s doing that. And he looked at us and he said ‘Guys, I don’t care about the money. If that guy’s the best guy, and he’s the best guy, and he wants this, I’m gonna get him in here because I want to win now. And if that doesn’t psyche up anybody out there that’s listening to this, then you’re not a true Browns fan.”

Peter: “So this wasn’t true before but it’s true now? That somehow, right now, Randy Lerner is going to get it right even though he apparently hasn’t gotten it right in the last decade.”

We’ll leave that last question posed their Peter as a rhetorical one. All Browns fans know it’s the question that has been haunting — and that will continue to haunt — this franchise until Randy Lerner is able to start making smart hiring choices.

I sincerely thank Peter and Mike for their time, and do hope you enjoyed the podcast. Use the comment section liberally to debate this issue. There certainly are plenty of valid points on both sides.

Ultimately, no matter happens with the walk-in, at least we can all agree on one thing that we want to see next Monday night: a win over the Ravens.

And maybe, just maybe, the NFL gods will decide to throw us another Monday night bone. Then, instead of arguing and focusing on another loss, we can go back to doing what Browns fan do best.

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* – Dawg Pound Mike photo credit: DawgPoundMike.com

* – The intro song for this week’s podcast is Awake the Day by Austin Bridges. The intermission song is I Won’t Wait by Records Record Records.

Tags: Brian Daboll, browns fan protest, cleveland brown, cleveland frowns, dawg pound mike, eric mangini, mobile dawg tony, Monday Night Football, peter pattakos, Podcast, randy lerner

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