Comments on: Joe Dumars……Genius? http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/ A sports blog by and for Midwest Sports Fans Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:20:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Nicholas Gerlach http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1964 Nicholas Gerlach Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:00:21 +0000 http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1964 Barry, You make some good points again. I've enjoyed the banter. But, I don't think that you can say that LeBron James is a little better than AI right now. He is a lot better. James is leading the league in scoring and is 8th in assists....Can you say MVP this year. and yes Kwame Brown > Darko I didn't know that Orlando was your team. I can dig it. They should win the the Southleast division title this year. Delonte West is a much better player than you give him credit for and you forgot about Daniel Gibson. You know what the Cavs are goign to able to do a lot better than the Pistons all year?...Shoot from outside. As far as the Cleveland vs. Detroit as a city debate is concerned. I've been to both cities and I can assure you that Cleveland, while not the hotspot, is a lot better than Detroit...just based on roller coasters and museums. Add to that the fact that Cleveland isn't in Michigan and you have a slam dunk case. But, the point is, the Cavaliers don't need to be a destination team in 2008. They just need to keep what they already have. Barry,

You make some good points again. I’ve enjoyed the banter. But, I don’t think that you can say that LeBron James is a little better than AI right now. He is a lot better. James is leading the league in scoring and is 8th in assists….Can you say MVP this year.

and yes Kwame Brown > Darko

I didn’t know that Orlando was your team. I can dig it. They should win the the Southleast division title this year.

Delonte West is a much better player than you give him credit for and you forgot about Daniel Gibson. You know what the Cavs are goign to able to do a lot better than the Pistons all year?…Shoot from outside.

As far as the Cleveland vs. Detroit as a city debate is concerned. I’ve been to both cities and I can assure you that Cleveland, while not the hotspot, is a lot better than Detroit…just based on roller coasters and museums. Add to that the fact that Cleveland isn’t in Michigan and you have a slam dunk case.

But, the point is, the Cavaliers don’t need to be a destination team in 2008. They just need to keep what they already have.

]]> By: Barry http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1889 Barry Sat, 22 Nov 2008 07:32:30 +0000 http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1889 I think you know that there are only two elite teams at this point in time, but who knows what will shake out later, the night is still young. I think Detroit is a very good team. Easily on par with Cleveland if not a bit better.I see both teams with basically the same problem now that AI is there.A superstar without enough supporting cast to catch the big two. Cleveland's superstar is a little more super now that AI is older, but Detroit's supporting cast is better. Hamilton is a star albeit fading, Prince has his good points and Sheed is Sheed. I don't see a star on the Cavs roster to support LeB. Williams is close, I guess. BigZ is fine, but West and Ben are pretty weak.You're going to say something about Ben's leadership, but I believe I read where BigB refused to reenter the game in the finals during his last year with Detroit. Maybe I am wrong, but It seemed like both Wallace's were a problem. Don't rub it in, Jim, about Dumars screwing us out that 15th pick. Orlando's my team and I would rather have Kwame's hands of stone than Darko. Is the city of Cleveland an upgrade on "dreary Detroit"? Just wondered. We don't get snow and all down here. Doesn't the Detroit river flow into Lake Erie? I think you know that there are only two elite teams at this point in time, but who knows what will shake out later, the night is still young. I think Detroit is a very good team. Easily on par with Cleveland if not a bit better.I see both teams with basically the same problem now that AI is there.A superstar without enough supporting cast to catch the big two.
Cleveland’s superstar is a little more super now that AI is older, but Detroit’s supporting cast is better. Hamilton is a star albeit fading, Prince has his good points and Sheed is Sheed. I don’t see a star on the Cavs roster to support LeB. Williams is close, I guess. BigZ is fine, but West and Ben are pretty weak.You’re going to say something about Ben’s leadership, but I believe I read where BigB refused to reenter the game in the finals during his last year with Detroit. Maybe I am wrong, but It seemed like both Wallace’s were a problem.
Don’t rub it in, Jim, about Dumars screwing us out that 15th pick. Orlando’s my team and I would rather have Kwame’s hands of stone than Darko.
Is the city of Cleveland an upgrade on “dreary Detroit”? Just wondered.
We don’t get snow and all down here. Doesn’t the Detroit river flow into Lake Erie?

]]> By: Nicholas Gerlach http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1852 Nicholas Gerlach Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:29:53 +0000 http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1852 Jim- You make some pretty valid points there. I know that they have been using Prince as a point forward. I just really think that you need a good true PG to win a championship in the NBA. That's just my opinion. They had that young lineup in when they pulled away and beat Cleveland...but, the Cavs shot really poorly...and I don't really think that you can argue that Detroit is a young team. Of the three players you mentioned, Stuckey is the only one I can really see becoming a star player in the NBA. But, like I said, you make some pretty good points. Also I know that he tried to get Melo in the offseason. Of course he wants Melo instead of AI...he's a lot younger and probably a better player right now. I just don't see this AI trade really working out this year and I don't see them getting as far in the playoffs as they usually do...maybe second round. The salary cap thing: They will be able to get anyone they want with trades and stay under the cap, but, what will they have to offer? The only way I can see them getting a star player is if they find some team that wants to cut costs so badly that they will trade their best player for a past-his-prime 'Sheed or Rip Hamilton. You say once this team gets more time with AI they will even more dangerous...and I know that Iverson SAYS he is looking forward to more practice. But, doesn't part of you think that the old AI is going to come out sooner or later and the other veterans on that team aren't going to put up with that? Just part of you....maybe a little...huh? That being said...they have beaten Cleveland and LA in the last week. It's really too early to tell. My whole point to this article is to say that Joe Dumars is a good GM. But, he's not the genius some people want to think he is. Still a good team...not a great team. Jim-
You make some pretty valid points there. I know that they have been using Prince as a point forward. I just really think that you need a good true PG to win a championship in the NBA. That’s just my opinion. They had that young lineup in when they pulled away and beat Cleveland…but, the Cavs shot really poorly…and I don’t really think that you can argue that Detroit is a young team. Of the three players you mentioned, Stuckey is the only one I can really see becoming a star player in the NBA. But, like I said, you make some pretty good points.

Also I know that he tried to get Melo in the offseason. Of course he wants Melo instead of AI…he’s a lot younger and probably a better player right now. I just don’t see this AI trade really working out this year and I don’t see them getting as far in the playoffs as they usually do…maybe second round.

The salary cap thing: They will be able to get anyone they want with trades and stay under the cap, but, what will they have to offer? The only way I can see them getting a star player is if they find some team that wants to cut costs so badly that they will trade their best player for a past-his-prime ‘Sheed or Rip Hamilton.

You say once this team gets more time with AI they will even more dangerous…and I know that Iverson SAYS he is looking forward to more practice. But, doesn’t part of you think that the old AI is going to come out sooner or later and the other veterans on that team aren’t going to put up with that? Just part of you….maybe a little…huh?

That being said…they have beaten Cleveland and LA in the last week. It’s really too early to tell.

My whole point to this article is to say that Joe Dumars is a good GM. But, he’s not the genius some people want to think he is. Still a good team…not a great team.

]]> By: Jim http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1850 Jim Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:14:12 +0000 http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1850 "Why not trade for another or maybe a bigger wingman (Carmelo Anthony)?" Joe D actually tried to trade for Anthony first. Billups was quoted as saying that Joe D told him he offered Billups and Prince for Melo, but that Denver turned it down. Obviously Joe D messed up with the Darko pick, but at least he was able to trade Darko to the Magic for the draft pick that became Rodney Stuckey. I'm not sure if you've watched the Pistons a lot this year, but Tayshuan Prince is basically playing a point forward and initiating the offense, while Rip and AI work on the wings to get open and attack the basket, so the Pistons don't need a "true pg" as much as some other offensive systems do. Chauncey was great for this team and I wish him the best, but look at his stats during the last 3 Eastern Conference Finals series when the Pistons needed him the most...they are pretty bad and way below his regular season averages these past 3 years. AI gives the Pistons something they desperately need in the playoffs, which is some one who can break down the other team with the dribble and create for himself and/or others. "The Pistons are getting older, and slower"...this is somewhat true since Rip, AI, and Sheed aren't getting any younger, but they have a lot of young talent on the team with Stuckey, Maxiell, Afflalo, Amir Johnson, and even Kwame Brown is playing solid. Did you see the line up last night for the whole 4th quarter when Detroit broke away from Cleveland? It was AI, Stuckey (22), Afflalo (23), Maxiell (25) and Sheed. "But, do you really think any big time free agents are going want to move to dreary, cold and Matt Milleny Detroit"...obviously Detroit isn't the most attractive city, but for players who want to win there isn't a much better culture then Detroit. The thing is, the cap space isn't only good for free agents, but it's huge for trades as well. Usually you need salaries to match up (within 25%) to make a trade, but if you are way under the cap, then that doesn't apply. That's how the Clips got Marcus Camby for a second round pick. In the last 5 days the Pistons have beaten LA, who had won 8 straight, and Cleveland, who had won 7 straight. This is without much practice (yes, AI is consistently talking about how he actually looks forward to more practices with the Pistons so they can continue to get better) with a guy who completely changes the dynamic of their team. Once these guys get more time with AI and Dyess returns (it appears to be a lock) Detroit will be even more dangerous. “Why not trade for another or maybe a bigger wingman (Carmelo Anthony)?”

Joe D actually tried to trade for Anthony first. Billups was quoted as saying that Joe D told him he offered Billups and Prince for Melo, but that Denver turned it down. Obviously Joe D messed up with the Darko pick, but at least he was able to trade Darko to the Magic for the draft pick that became Rodney Stuckey. I’m not sure if you’ve watched the Pistons a lot this year, but Tayshuan Prince is basically playing a point forward and initiating the offense, while Rip and AI work on the wings to get open and attack the basket, so the Pistons don’t need a “true pg” as much as some other offensive systems do. Chauncey was great for this team and I wish him the best, but look at his stats during the last 3 Eastern Conference Finals series when the Pistons needed him the most…they are pretty bad and way below his regular season averages these past 3 years. AI gives the Pistons something they desperately need in the playoffs, which is some one who can break down the other team with the dribble and create for himself and/or others.

“The Pistons are getting older, and slower”…this is somewhat true since Rip, AI, and Sheed aren’t getting any younger, but they have a lot of young talent on the team with Stuckey, Maxiell, Afflalo, Amir Johnson, and even Kwame Brown is playing solid. Did you see the line up last night for the whole 4th quarter when Detroit broke away from Cleveland? It was AI, Stuckey (22), Afflalo (23), Maxiell (25) and Sheed.

“But, do you really think any big time free agents are going want to move to dreary, cold and Matt Milleny Detroit”…obviously Detroit isn’t the most attractive city, but for players who want to win there isn’t a much better culture then Detroit. The thing is, the cap space isn’t only good for free agents, but it’s huge for trades as well. Usually you need salaries to match up (within 25%) to make a trade, but if you are way under the cap, then that doesn’t apply. That’s how the Clips got Marcus Camby for a second round pick.

In the last 5 days the Pistons have beaten LA, who had won 8 straight, and Cleveland, who had won 7 straight. This is without much practice (yes, AI is consistently talking about how he actually looks forward to more practices with the Pistons so they can continue to get better) with a guy who completely changes the dynamic of their team. Once these guys get more time with AI and Dyess returns (it appears to be a lock) Detroit will be even more dangerous.

]]> By: The Demise of Isiah Thomas | Overdose - Sexual Harrasment - Folding of CBA http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1840 The Demise of Isiah Thomas | Overdose - Sexual Harrasment - Folding of CBA Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:44:15 +0000 http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1840 [...] recently blogged on the topic of Pistons GM Joe Dumars, a former guard for Detroit, and the perception that he is a genius. This got me to thinking about his partner in the backcourt for those Pistons championship teams of [...] [...] recently blogged on the topic of Pistons GM Joe Dumars, a former guard for Detroit, and the perception that he is a genius. This got me to thinking about his partner in the backcourt for those Pistons championship teams of [...]

]]> By: Nicholas Gerlach http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1839 Nicholas Gerlach Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:40:33 +0000 http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1839 Barry, I didn't say he wasn't a good GM. I just don't think that he is the genius that the people of Detroit believe he is. Melo thing aside...he could have taken Chris Bosh in that draft instead. He is definitely tough enough to fit the Pistons style of play. He didn't draft him either and will probably go after him in free agency now that he will have the cap space to go after him. Bosh won't leave Toronto though...and you could have had him 5 years ago. The AI trade worked out pretty well last night though. I just don't think it will be agood long term decision. But it's still early. We'll see...maybe I'll be proven completely wrong. I appreciate your comments and your point of view and thanks for reading. Barry,
I didn’t say he wasn’t a good GM. I just don’t think that he is the genius that the people of Detroit believe he is.

Melo thing aside…he could have taken Chris Bosh in that draft instead. He is definitely tough enough to fit the Pistons style of play. He didn’t draft him either and will probably go after him in free agency now that he will have the cap space to go after him. Bosh won’t leave Toronto though…and you could have had him 5 years ago.

The AI trade worked out pretty well last night though. I just don’t think it will be agood long term decision. But it’s still early. We’ll see…maybe I’ll be proven completely wrong.

I appreciate your comments and your point of view and thanks for reading.

]]> By: Barry http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1836 Barry Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:56:47 +0000 http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1836 OOOOOO Why are you so bitter about the Pistons? You have 20-20 hindsight. Dumars screwed up on Darko and Okur and probably many others that a guy from Florida wouldn't know about, but he must be a good GM or Detroit wouldn't have been good all these years. I don't see someone soft like Melo doing any good whatsoever for them, but then again AI is strange for them too. AI is a wild card, maybe he will be great or maybe he is just to try to get more people in the seats. Cleveland needs a shooting guard 10 pts ave? and a power forward 3 pts? (no matter how good his defense is.) A bench would be nice too. OOOOOO Why are you so bitter about the Pistons? You have 20-20 hindsight. Dumars screwed up on Darko and Okur and probably many others that a guy from Florida wouldn’t know about, but he must be a good GM or Detroit wouldn’t have been good all these years. I don’t see someone soft like Melo doing any good whatsoever for them, but then again AI is strange for them too. AI is a wild card, maybe he will be great or maybe he is just to try to get more people in the seats. Cleveland needs a shooting guard 10 pts ave? and a power forward 3 pts? (no matter how good his defense is.) A bench would be nice too.

]]> By: PistonsNationBlog.com » Blog Archive » Game #11: Come back win http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1825 PistonsNationBlog.com » Blog Archive » Game #11: Come back win Thu, 20 Nov 2008 16:47:48 +0000 http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1825 [...] NOTES: The Afflalo to Maxiell oop was #3 on ESPN’s top 10 … Here’s a blogger not sold on Joe D … Don’t leave your streak around the Pistons … Bobcats entering McDyess race [...] [...] NOTES: The Afflalo to Maxiell oop was #3 on ESPN’s top 10 … Here’s a blogger not sold on Joe D … Don’t leave your streak around the Pistons … Bobcats entering McDyess race [...]

]]> By: JRod http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1749 JRod Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:29:10 +0000 http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1749 I think you both are jackasses. Joe Dumars is a great coach, a great man, and the greatest General Manager in the history of professional sports. What do you know? Sincerely, Flip "Captain Clutch" Saunders I think you both are jackasses. Joe Dumars is a great coach, a great man, and the greatest General Manager in the history of professional sports. What do you know?

Sincerely,

Flip “Captain Clutch” Saunders

]]> By: Nicholas Gerlach http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1748 Nicholas Gerlach Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:27:50 +0000 http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1748 Maybe Shaq will just do a sign and retire thing with the Lakers so that he can retire with the team that he won 3 championships with. As a Lakers fan you have to appreciate the fact that they won 3 straight championships with him....and they haven't won one since...and Kobe can win one by himself...even though he thinks he can. As far as the Cavs: How can you not be sold on them as a team right now? They have the best player in the league...who is averaging over 30 ppg in the last 8 games. They play great team defense and they finally got him some help. Plus, they have a lights out shooter in Daniel Gibson. I really think they are going to win the Eastern Conference this year...and that's not just because I am a fan of them. I was just thinking how awesome a Kobe/LeBron championship series would be. My only problem with the Lakers is they are soft and I don't think they can make it all the way through the playoffs through teams like New Orleans. Maybe Shaq will just do a sign and retire thing with the Lakers so that he can retire with the team that he won 3 championships with. As a Lakers fan you have to appreciate the fact that they won 3 straight championships with him….and they haven’t won one since…and Kobe can win one by himself…even though he thinks he can.

As far as the Cavs: How can you not be sold on them as a team right now? They have the best player in the league…who is averaging over 30 ppg in the last 8 games. They play great team defense and they finally got him some help. Plus, they have a lights out shooter in Daniel Gibson. I really think they are going to win the Eastern Conference this year…and that’s not just because I am a fan of them.

I was just thinking how awesome a Kobe/LeBron championship series would be. My only problem with the Lakers is they are soft and I don’t think they can make it all the way through the playoffs through teams like New Orleans.

]]> By: KVB http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1746 KVB Tue, 18 Nov 2008 20:09:47 +0000 http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2008/11/joe-dumarsgenius/#comment-1746 You’re right on the Dumars front. And the only people who would dispute you are fans of teams who have inept management. One being former Piston Isiah Thomas. But I have issues with the management for the Cavs that is for sure. LeBron is super young, but one Eastern Conference series in prime so far. The only thing that can defeat that idea is a strong championship run this year or next. And I don’t believe in the team, not King James. He’s incredible. Shaq says it is possible he could be back in LA in 2010, when he is what? 40? I 2010 i can see the Cavs over paying Shaq before they extend LBJ but right after LeBron says, “You are lame” and bolts to NY. As a Laker fan i don't want Shaq baq for anything You’re right on the Dumars front. And the only people who would dispute you are fans of teams who have inept management. One being former Piston Isiah Thomas. But I have issues with the management for the Cavs that is for sure. LeBron is super young, but one Eastern Conference series in prime so far. The only thing that can defeat that idea is a strong championship run this year or next. And I don’t believe in the team, not King James. He’s incredible.

Shaq says it is possible he could be back in LA in 2010, when he is what? 40? I 2010 i can see the Cavs over paying Shaq before they extend LBJ but right after LeBron says, “You are lame” and bolts to NY. As a Laker fan i don’t want Shaq baq for anything

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